SPEAKER_03 0:13

Welcome

Cold Open And Remote Delay

SPEAKER_03 0:14

back everyone to another swing shift. I'm your host Rob, uh alongside my co-host RJ. Howdy.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Right on cue. Okay. Yeah. See, I'm not I'm kind of slow, you know. I'm not great with like the open-ended toss. It's like, do I talk right now? Should I say so?

SPEAKER_03 0:38

I think the best part was the the the pause and the best you could come up with in that time was howdy.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Uh yeah. Thank God I'm not like doing something like a podcaster something that requires me to be quick on my feet when I'm talking.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

That's okay. That's okay. Well, you know, uh most nights I have I'm I'm kind of off too, so it's fine. It's actually good for me. It makes me feel better about myself when you're a little slow to to pick up.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

So do you remember the first recording we did? And it took it took us like an hour to get started because I think people know by now we're in different states. But like we the first we we went through like 30 minutes not realizing there was like an eight second delay, and we were both thinking, we figured out the fact that we're both thinking, oh my god, he's really off tomorrow.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

This guy's this guy's not having this is not a good night to start our podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Anyway. Yeah. Um,

OBD2 Code P2270 And O2 Sensors

SPEAKER_03 1:44

so I wanted to follow up with you. Uh last podcast we talked about all the vehicles on on the ranch, but it really kind of started with you talking about a a random check engine light that popped up on the burb. Has that uh remedied itself? Has it gotten worse? Where are we at with that?

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Yeah, thanks for keeping me accountable. Um yeah, so it here's the thing. I met, I was you know me. My thing is like uh my initial thing was like, I'm gonna give it time. I'm gonna give it the time, I'll scan it, I'll do the and then I was in I was in town today, I was running some errands, and I was just like, you know what, just do do the right thing. Oh wait, I totally skipped a step. Oh, my beautiful mind. Yeah, so I scanned it. Well, I scanned it. It was a P2270 downstream O2 sensor. Um which okay. I'm like, I have I know they're not this that bad anymore, but like I have PTSD from um because you know, you and I have been working on cars since we were like could could drive basically, you know. Uh check engine light for an O2 is basically like I don't know what's wrong. So it could be anything. That's that used to be what it meant. Uh but anyway, so yeah, O2 sensor. And I'm like, okay, I'll today I'm like, you know what, don't do your normal thing, you know, just go to the parts store and buy the damn sensor and replace the damn sensor, right? And so I did. I went to the parts store and I bought the sensor. And as I was pulling out of the parking lot, I swear to fuck check engine light went off.

SPEAKER_03 3:23

I'm getting uh I'm I'm here myself, by the way. Uh I can hear m hear myself breathing and I hate it. Yeah, I yeah. Hey, can you hear me now? Yeah. I always I always have the best of intentions when like when getting prepared for the podcast and then the night of I'm like shit! Shit. So uh gosh, I don't even know. Where'd we leave off? I don't yeah, I don't remember. Um was the the oh yeah, you pulled out of the parking lot and the uh Yeah, so I you know did the right thing.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

I went to the parts store, I bought the sensor, and I was really feeling good about myself. You know, just do the simple thing, don't overthink it. Bought it, and then as I was pulling out of the part store, check engine light, went away.

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Well, that that makes perfect sense. I mean, as soon as you buy the part, it fixes itself.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah, yeah. Maybe uh yeah, maybe it was just maybe it just needed some reinforcement, the old sub buttons. Like just having the the sensor in like on board, not attached or anything, but just there. It's like, thank you, I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Don't fix me, Dad. I'm fine.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

So yeah, I'm sure it'll come back, right? Because it's oh yeah. Uh anyway, nonetheless, that's that's I'm I'm taking good care of Celine's vehicle.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Good, good. I'm I'm sure she's she's happy to hear that. I know she's an avid listener. Um so all right. Here's some here's some follow-up questions for you. Uh when you pulled the code, did you actually do a reading on the O2s to check uh what kind of output they were giving on the OBD? To answer your question, no. So I did not know why. Do you want to know why I asked that question? Uh I would love, I think I know why, but yeah. Well, I'd like to hear your your thought, your thoughts first before the the before the expert speaks up.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Oh, okay. Um I would I'm my guess would be it's gonna be one of two things and probably both. One, uh you were gonna you're gonna ask me if I looked at the freeze frame when the check engine light was uh set as um whatever on. And then two, if I looked at the O2 sensor voltage on the one it was indicating is bad. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

So interesting. So so the the O the O2s will also give you like an output reading, and based on how frequently the the reading is communicated to the vehicle, can tell you if the sensor's going bad. So if it's very slow or not changing, you can you know that your your sensor's bad. So if it's if it's showing you a bunch of different numbers all you know constantly, you know you gotta get an O2. Remember, it's a downstream uh thing, right? So it's just a symptom of so I found that in a lot of cases when people have O2 issues, it's actually usually somewhere on the air intake side, and usually it's the throttle body. Well, first of all, hard disagree.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Um this is a this is a downstream one. Um but I'll set that aside. I want to go back to the I want I want to go back. You open this door, so I'm gonna walk through. Sure. Uh you said if I if I you know look at the O2 sensor on the thing, it'll display numbers, right? And I can okay. What I said right before that in trying to guess what you were gonna say was checking the O2 voltage. Yeah. The numbers you're talking about are the O2 voltage. Is that what it's recording? Yep. Okay, I believe you. Well, you have to, uh, because it's true. But no, it's you probably maybe um voltage you're thinking like battery voltage, like is it 12 volts or not? Um, but actually the O2s, the O2s put out a variable voltage, um like between zero and one and a half volts. Yeah, yeah. So as it's senses, what is you know, you know, whatever. So what was the voltage reading? I didn't I didn't check it, remember?

SPEAKER_03 7:39

So you just Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Yeah So my point still stands, you should check the um Yeah. What I I don't disagree with you you didn't you asked if I disagree with my analysis. I I disagree with your or my explanation. No, you were right. You were not totally right. I disagree with your nomenclature. Disagreeing with you.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Okay, fair, fair. I got it. Okay, okay. Well, I hope the I really hope the O2 sensor fixes it when it does pop back up. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Uh I will let you know. I'm sure you and our audience member are on the edge of edge of edge there. I'm on them right now.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

So I will be sure to follow up on that. We'll be waiting with bated breath.

The Brief Era Of A Trillionaire

SPEAKER_03 8:29

Um I've got okay, so I've got something for you that I've been dying to talk to you about. We temporarily, for a very short period of time, had the world's and I believe the humankind's first trillionaire. Uh yeah. Oh, he's not anymore? He's not. I just was looking it up uh prior to us jumping on, and he is back in the billions. He's only worth a measly eight hundred and some odd billion dollars.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

God. What a scrub.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

Yeah. How the mighty have fallen. What a loser.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Well, you know what they say.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

Did you say what is scrub?

SPEAKER_02 9:15

Yeah, I did. Uh I'm bringing that back. Um, but you know what they say though, like uh a a hundred billion dollars here, hundred billion dollars there, it's eventually it adds up to real money.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, I it was uh I'm sure as you are very well aware of that, you know, what kind of catapulted him into the trillionaire status was the launch of or the I yeah, the launch of the IPO of SpaceX.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Uh I think that yeah, that that's what that's what closed the that's what made the difference from billionaire to trillionaire. Yeah. Correct. Uh uh yes, I'm aware. Very aware. Actually, they were supposed to launch Starship uh V3 today, and they ended up aborting it, uh, I think at TMS Zero, like right at the last second. Four of the Raptor engines didn't fire two or four. Wow, I'm sorry. Go ahead, continue.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

No, no, that's actually interesting. So you're a lot more dialed into all this stuff than I am.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Um I mean, you so I'm not sure what we're talking about yet. Uh because if it's Musk, no. If it's um SpaceX, yeah, I'm pretty dialed into it. Um, you know, I rely on uh I rely on Starlink, I rely on SpaceX for internet connectivity. Why is that funny?

SPEAKER_03 10:37

I don't know. I don't know. I don't rely on Starlink, I rely on SpaceX.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Starlink is a division of SpaceX. Did you know that?

SPEAKER_03 10:44

I know it is. Oh, I know.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Yeah. No, I'm I'm I'm making sorry, maybe I was being pedantic, but I was making a distinction in that I follow SpaceX like with regard to their launches and their tech, you know, what their their new vehicles and the starship and stuff. Um so I follow it and I'm kind of dialed into that, the SpaceX thing. But then also I guess it was a side note with the Starlink, which Starlink itself is just a fascinating piece of technology. Um, but I do rely on it. Um quite a bit. Yeah. Quite a bit. Yeah. It's either, you know, if the Starlink, if I didn't have Starlink, I would have to rely on the one and a half bars of cell that I get if I stand in the right spot on the deck.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Yeah. Yeah, as soon as you got that Starlink, man, that was a game changer for the ranch. Yeah. Oh, totally. Yeah. So um, yeah, I get okay.

Tesla Robots And Chores At Home

SPEAKER_03 11:42

So he was temporarily a billionaire. And then um he recently was kind of uh doing kind of a product launch, kind of a not product launch that I saw, where he was talking primarily about their, you know, their production on these uh robots, these androids. And uh I guess he's they're eliminating some of the uh the Tesla products, and they're supposed to be releasing some new new lines within Tesla, but I guess a big chunk of some of the production drop-off with the vehicles is so they can make space to start building these robots. Is that is that accurate?

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Uh you know what? I actually I I don't know. Um Tesla, uh uh contrary to SpaceX, Tesla I don't follow. I don't really know what they're up to. Interesting. I know they have had you know, they've had some demos and some talk about robot thingies. Um, but yeah, I don't know anything about it.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Have you yeah, there I mean, it'd be kind of cool to, you know, have a robot clean the house and do stuff while I'm at work. Yeah, well right.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

I used to have one of those. Um it vacuumed, but it died a horrible dust.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Here we go. You know what? Let's you want to hash that out right now?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

No, I don't. Um I don't know. Nope. Uh no, no, they didn't. It's not that they broke or anything, it's just it was too much to keep up with. Uh their darts killed it. Uh yeah, I don't know. Anyway, I recently brought Mr. Big Suck back online, so he's running again.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

But uh yeah, I mean it's the gayest name I've ever heard for a vacuum, but it fits.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Well, Mr.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Big Suck.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Mr. Big Suck, will you? I'm I was a little miffed that I had to give it a name. Like when I was setting up in the app, it's like, well, you want to name it? I'm like, I don't want to name anything. I want it's fucking robot vacuum my house robot, you know? And it's like Ryan's vacuum. Yeah, and it's like, well, you you have to you have to the app's like here's the thing if you want it to vacuum your house, you're gonna have to name it. We won't let you proceed. And I'm like, god damn it. So I just put type Mr. Big Suck. Anyway. Yeah, I think so. Are the Tesla the specifically the Tesla robots uh are ones you're talking about are the the Android form factor, right? Yeah, correct. The ones that walk around, look around. Um I think it'd be great. Like, you know, uh loading doing the laundry, doing the dishes. Yeah. Uh vacuuming, feeding the dogs, cleaning the floors, feeding the dogs, vacuuming, emptying the cap box. Uh I mean, there's so so many things, maybe late at night when you're a little drunk, some weird shit. I don't know. But whoa, whoa.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Um hands, blood.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

So uh Mr. Musk, uh Elon Musk, what kind of hands does it come with? Uh and are there options? Sepple or robot, go put on your evening hands. Your evening hands. Oh gosh. Um, okay, no, I think so I well here I'll tell you how I feel about uh Androids. Is

Why Must Robots Have Legs

SPEAKER_02 15:13

I think it'd be I think having a robot to do household things, incidentally, did you know that uh the carousel of progress at Walt Disney World, um, they're actually retiring it finally? Really? Yeah, you know what that is, right? You've seen it?

SPEAKER_03 15:28

Have you seen it? You did Walt at Walt Disney World?

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Wait. No, uh not at Disney World. No, I've never been to Disney World.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Okay, I wonder if they I don't know if they have it in uh no, there was really no connection there.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

Um well I'd like to hear your thoughts on having I guess there it is the press the prospect of having robots now in the world that are autonomous.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Thank you. That's it was a tenuous connection there there to carousel progress. Oh god, that was yeah, okay. Shiny, shiny shiny. Uh so my thing about having rope like a ro robots around the house to s to help with things. Um, great. Uh however, two things. I would prefer that they be as dumb as possible and as not connected as possible. And I think those two things are not gonna happen given the world we live in today. So that's a bit concerning. Um and my second thing about them is I don't understand just from a practical standpoint, why we need them to be Android-y, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:39

Like uh like a humanoid type thing?

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Yeah, yeah, that's a better word. Sorry. Why why it needs to be humanoid necessarily?

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Yeah, why can't it just be on wheels or something?

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Yeah, we wheels, tracks, I mean, whatever. Um I I could I definitely see the case for um having I guess call it a torso, like two arms, right? Sure. Right. But what are we getting out of having it wall like look like and walk like a human?

SPEAKER_03 17:12

I almost I I yeah, it's a good point. That's actually a really solid point because yeah, if it was on a on a motorized chassis of some sort, you know, where it's it's not so instable, because that's that's always been the biggest issue with robotics as a whole is stability and balance and stuff, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:28

But well I think it's more Go ahead. No, I was gonna say that's kind of what I'm getting at, though, is that is a major challenge with a humanoid robot. Right. But also why does it need to be humanoid?

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Well, I think I think it's more of a show of how advanced their technology is than anything else, right? They could put it on wheels if they wanted to, but it's like we figured this shit out, you know, whereas everybody else has been struggling. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

I mean it's a really good it does a it's a as a demonstrator, yeah. Uh you're familiar with Boston dynamics, Boston robotics. Yeah. So you see the things they do, right? With like the Yeah. Yeah. So that to me is like that makes a lot of sense in terms of cracking that technology because there's a lot of viable uses for it. Um specifically like multiple terrain type stuff, right? Uh for a house robot or you know, a ranch robot. I'll just say a house robot. Most people don't have ranches, I understand. Um, you know, again giddy up, cowboy. Yeah, it's like uh it just seems like if you if you're if you want to get robots that can do shit around the house into people's houses and sell them, like you can you can do that a lot faster without cracking the walking around technology.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Right. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, uh I I okay, so big picture thoughts. Like what do you think if if this becomes to where they can produce it, it's scalable, and it becomes quasi-affordable, like what do you think that's gonna do to the job market?

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Uh you're talking about like this Tesla humanoid type thing?

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Yeah. Like I don't think what what kind of implications would that have on, you know, like say manufacturing jobs or manual labor where you no longer have to pay people, you can just buy some robots to do a lot of this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Yeah. Um I have a hard time seeing how that really changes the landscape because um again, back to the legs thing. I guess my main problem with this is the legs. But like back to the legs thing. Move on from the legs. Let's just assume the legs are good, man. I I can't because like if they can be good, that's great. But the thing is, like, if you're talking about somebody in a factory, um say installing instrument clusters and cars or welding panels or whatever, or you're talking about somebody uh digging a ditch out, you know, on a job site, or you're talking about somebody like welding I-beams, you know, on a bill, these are not things that like the getting to the thing is not really the a big thing, you know what I'm saying? So like having having legs and it does I don't think I just don't think it really changes much because I think the vast majority of things that can be replaced, you know, the dexterity or whatever that can be replaced by a robot, um, I think it would just be better served by a more conventional robot setup. Um is he the only is Tesla the only one working on trying to get one of these uh humanoid robot thingies like to market?

SPEAKER_03 21:00

I'm not sure. That's actually a really good question. Thank you. Uh something that I think we'll have to research. Yeah. For the for the fan.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

For the fan. Um, yeah. I just I s I struggle with it because I feel like I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I feel like that I'm just missing something, right? Because um I don't see what the I don't see what you really get by turning that corner, apart from it becoming potentially a status thing, right? Or a vanity thing, or you know, uh, you know, some robot dude walk around your house like greeting your guests, letting them in. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Um well, I mean, yeah, I I guess I guess I'm trying to extrapolate a little bit here and just not look at the technology for what it is currently, but you know, as they continue to improve and advance and come out with new iterations. Yeah. It's going to get better, right? And especially if there's a slew of money going into this now because they're able to sell these things. And here's here's the other thing. So you got the industrial piece of it. You got the the retailer, the you know, the the day-to-day purchaser for vanity purposes or for help around the house. Like we were even talking just jokingly, like it'd be cool as a neighborhood to to go all of us go in on one, and then each day of the week that you know each house gets that robot to do stuff while we're, you know, at work or doing whatever we need to do. So we don't have to do the chores around the house, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Um Yeah, that's a really interesting idea. I think it's a really good idea, except not the best idea. The best idea is y'all go in and get two of them because then weekend cage fights.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Yeah.

Military Uses And Autonomy Fears

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Okay, so you're you're you actually kind of are alluding to my next thought is the militar military use of them of of of robots, right? So now there's not as much need for a soldier in the field because it can be potentially replaced with with an android. And you know, I mean, I don't know if you've ever looked at like the stats of how much money the the military puts into a soldier before they even step foot on a field, but it's about $832,000 uh on average.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

There you go. I'm I just made that up. But okay, I no, I you're right though. Your point stands as it's it's incredibly expensive.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Right. And so it could make sense to where it's like, okay, there's now um no no there's a diminished risk of loss of life of American soldiers' lives. Um and it makes financial sense to the taxpayer because you know it offsets the cost of what we would be using to train these soldiers that would other that'd be putting themselves in the line of fire. So, you know, I mean that's that's you know, Skynet, it's you know, 30 years from now type conversation, but I mean it's stuff that I kind of been ruminating on.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Yeah, it's it's it's interesting. Um I uh I still like I just I struggle to make the connection um like with in a world of you know aerial drones and a world of you know land-based, track-based, wheel-based uh robots that can have guns and missiles attached to all of the above and everything. Like I s you know, I just I can't I can't really see, you know, like what what to me like the evolution of on the ground warfare is like with regard to soldiers on the ground is that there are just fewer of them because you don't need uh an infantry division um, you know, to blast through the front uh on a warfield because you have uh you have guys in their in their in their base, you know, flying drums and drum blowing shit up and you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Yeah, to a degree. I mean, you're you're right, but there's still certain like just the amount of time uh all of our most recent wartime and under experience has been in the Middle East where it you've had to go knocking at doors because you're you're in in a mixed battlefield between civilian and and uh you know enemy, right? So you can't just go in and level things out because there's no way to tell friend from foe, right? Um until you start questioning them or get a sense of like what they're hiding in their house or domicile, whatever. But um I think I think you are onto something though, because there is, you know, there's a lot of talk about advanced technology. So you still have humans that are in the field of battle, but they are equipped with significantly uh advanced technology to where they have, you know, they're not it they have nods replacements, which is basically now a face mask, kind of like what uh a lot of the pilots in these newer aircraft are using. So it's like you have full 360 view. Um you're able it's able to identify targets, it's able to identify friendly aircraft, friendly uh soldiers and stuff like that. So that way you're not you know it it diminishes the risk of of uh friendly fire, right? So that stuff's already available on our aircraft. Now they're looking at doing comparable type optics with soldiers in the in the battlefield on the ground.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Uh yeah, I mean, um I think we I think you're talking about um probably the F-22 and F-35 helmets, flight helmets. Correct, and as well as the Apache, yeah. Yeah, um, right. And uh I just I can't get there. Because uh I'll say okay, so counterpoint. Um let's go, let's go back to knocking on the doors and and and whatever. Like you gotta go door to door. Uh identify friend and foe, okay. I mean, why why why can't uh why can't you have whole fucking little drones fly out to people's faces and be like, oh no, you're you know I mean not in their face, but like fly around and be like you're a kid, you know, you're a kid, you're a combatant with a a gun, you know, this that and the other.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

I think I think uh I think the reality is like how do you equip a drone to be able to make those decisions? You don't, but uh ideally the person on the on the back end of that controlling it.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Well, ideally, yes. Uh I mean the way the world's going, it's gonna suck because these things are gonna be autonomous at some point, and that's scary. But I think the answer to your question is that yeah, it's not a there's no difference there. Um you have the same question with a humanoid robot. Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:19

True. That's fair.

Automation Cuts Crew On Warships

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Yeah, um, I think the real I really think like if you if you're talking military, um I I really think and I could be missing a piece of this, and I feel like I might be with regard to the human the value of the humanoid, but I really think the value is the reduction in the number of uh personnel that you need to accomplish a mission. Um are you familiar with like the the uh the and uh the uh shit, what the hell is it the literal combat ships? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um they're there's two of them. There's the freedom class and the independence class. Um, and those are I think I think a good illust to me a good example of like kind of illustrate what I'm talking about. So they I can't remember exactly what their compliment is, like their crew compliment, but I want to say it's like 40, 50. Um what what do you mean by crew compliment? What does that what does that mean? Well, like how many people, how many people it has on board to operate it and fight it.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

There's only 40 or 50 on like a destroyer.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Uh no, so these are the LCS's literal comp oh well that's kind of where I was going. The the LCS, the literal combat class ships are the the ones that they're you know, there's the one that looks like it's like a stealth ship. It's like the tri-hole and it's on the angular.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

Yeah. So that those are the ones I'm talking about. The I just looked it up. Um yeah, they have 40 personnel to run that ship. Those things are pretty big though, right? They're not huge. I they're yeah, they're not small.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Um by like Navy standards, they're tiny.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Well, yeah, I d yeah, it's they're smaller than a destroyer, but like they're not uh I mean they're they're pretty I would say I don't know, I'm not gonna compare them, but just for sake of argument, uh a destroyer, like a current modern Arleigh Berg class destroyer. Um I believe has a crew complement of about 300, level under 300. Um it is not a what would that be? Six times it is not the ship is not six times bigger, you know what I'm saying? Right. Uh and the difference to come full circle on this is uh integration of a lot of roles on that tend used to be manual, that used to be done by you know individuals, specialized individuals, and the automation of a lot of things. Um like one very simple example on on the bridge of uh uh a typical Navy destroyer. You have other people, but you always have um you always have at least these four people. Uh you have basically two lookouts, a helmsman, and then a pilot. The helmsman actually um drives the ship. That's what they say, drives the ship, but the helmsman is the one calling out directions to the one who actually has his hands on the wheel. Uh and it seems really inefficient, doesn't it? Uh you know, I think that's there's a way to look at it like that, right? But at the same time, there's reasons for things. And I don't I don't know what all the reasons are, but in contrast, on like the independence class, else, you know, literal class, whatever, uh, they they have two people, and it's uh I'm sorry, I messed it up. It was uh uh the OD, not the Helsin. You got the officer of the deck, the OD, and whatever. But they've reduced those four into two people. So you have an OOD and a junior OOD, and they perform the functions of keeping lookout and driving the ship and operating the physical mechanism that drives a ship. Okay. So it's a 50% reduction in just like one small slice of how a ship operates. And that's that's a very long tangent to to kind of say that. I think that's where it's at, at least with military, is um reduced reduction number of people it takes to do things. And uh, to your point, the reduction of exposure of humans to risk.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

Right. Right, which uh which you mean like it serves both roles at simultaneously, right?

SPEAKER_02 33:17

So what I'm saying is I think that's the that's the that's what you want. Um and to go back to so I I think robotics in that sense and these things are really great, really great potential for that. Uh I just can't get the legs out of I can't put the legs.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

You just you really gotta let like let go of the legs, dude. I know that's what she said. But boom.

Costa Concordia And Bridge Redundancy

SPEAKER_03 33:45

The so going back to the Helmsman thing, I we just watched that uh documentary on Netflix about the uh uh Costa Concordia that that wrecked uh uh years and years ago. And you know, they they had a lot of footage, audio footage from the sh from the the bridge when all that stuff went down, and it was like listening to the captain call out the uh to the helmsman what you know what direction to turn and everything, and the guy got it mixed up. I'm like, why doesn't the guy just have a fucking toggle to just turn the ship? Like, why does it require so many people just to maneuver the boat? This is insane.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Yeah, interest interesting. So you're uh are you talking about um a pilot or a helmsman?

SPEAKER_03 34:36

So the the captain would call out, you know, oh the captain 13 degrees 13 degrees starboard, and then the helmsman would repeat back 13 degrees port, and he's like, no, starboard, right? Or vice versa.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

So but that helmsman is the one who's hands on controls, or or I think that they probably also had a pilot, too. So he he was the helmsman would then relay the shots or re relayed the captain's calls to then the pilot, and then the pilot would actually execute. But again, that's fine. Like, even if you guys are in tune with each other, that's three people that that message has to go across, and you know, the the SOP of confirming the call between two more people after the captain makes the call, it's like that's five seconds minimum, right? You're talking yeah, if there's a language barrier or if there's not a lot of good rapport between those three people, potentially ten seconds, and that's obviously the difference between uh you know having a smooth flight or smooth sailing and uh wrecking off the coast of uh of Italy.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Yeah, maybe. Uh I think actually you answered your you answered the question uh about when I was talking about the Bridgewood Destroyer and you said it's inefficient, and I said, well, there's probably reasons I don't really know, but I think you actually answered that question for me, which is it's the redundancy. The redundancy is the point. And if you know, if I'm the guy who is looking and visually doing a lookout and navigating and deciding direction and making those course adjustments, uh, you know, I'd I'd love to not be the guy who does all those things.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Um and so I think it is especially when you're talking lives at stake.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Yeah, for sure. Aliens of dollars. Yeah, and with regard to the speed, the the slowness of it, I think one thing is that you know, big ships don't move that fast. You're I don't think there's a whole lot of situations where safety or not is going to depend on you know there shouldn't be. But you know, you see here's the thing that you've seen in movies and stuff or on TV shows where like on a navy ship, captain will be calling out commands, then the OOD repeats them, you know, and then who whatever the Hellsman actually does the thing. But if it's really tense and stuff, then the commander, the captain's like, I have the con, right? And that just cuts out the OOD, the second person. So now the captain's directly talking to the guys with on the controls. And so I think that I never really connected those dots right now, but I think the deliberateness of like, okay, I have to, you know, it's a it's an extraordinary circumstance in which I am directly giving orders to the the operator. Uh and I'm guessing because it's the redundancy is is the point. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, you're you're probably exactly on the money about that. But with the cruise ship, I'm curious about this. Um I don't I don't really remember. I mean, I remember what happened, but uh so I asked about a pilot. Now, a pilot in this context is is somebody who is local to the area who comes on board to help navigate tight areas or harbors and stuff. Did they have a pilot in that sense?

SPEAKER_03 38:06

I don't know. Okay. I don't remember recall them mentioning anything about that.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Okay. I want to think just you know, like where they were. It was a you know, not like of it wasn't like a canal or a harbor or anything like tights. I mean they probably wouldn't.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

They they were off the coast of let's pull it up here. So the in the Mediterranean, I think off the coast of Italy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was uh I think that they were potent I think they were doing kind of I don't know if they were making their way on uh to this island in in particular. Uh I Isola del Giglio. So I'm not sure if they were um just passing by or if they were actually making port there. Oh but essentially, I guess the reason why they were so close to the coast was because one of the cruis well, yeah, one of the cruismen's families lived on that island, and so as they were sailing by, they wanted to do a close sail by so they could wave to each other. Yeah. And then got a little too close. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Uh right. That's I I think I recall something about it. It was like the captain's he had like some side bitch or something. Maybe it was a girlfriend who was like, you know, at a hotel uh along the side thing he was trying to show off for her or whatever. But I mean, same same difference, right? Like he was doing something.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Look at the size of this boat, babe.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah, you want yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Show you some legs.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

Uh these ones work, unlike the androids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Uh and that's um yeah, they probably didn't have a pilot. Uh it doesn't matter, really. It's just more of a curiosity because like um, you know, you have they have charts, they have very detailed charts of all these areas and stuff, but right, you know, the when they have a pilot on board, like it's specifically because they understand the nuance of of the the ocean terrain. They also understand the traffic that's going on around in there. Yeah, thinking back on that Costa thingy, it wasn't like a traffic there. There wasn't traffic around. I think it's just no. So were they was part of it that like wires were getting crossed in terms of direction of steering?

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Yeah. Uh yeah, they they literally turned in the wrong direction, and the pilot or the captain was trying to get them to to turn the opposite direction because they were getting so close to this rocky terrain that was in shallow water. So yeah, it was it literally that's exactly how how it transpired. But the what's interesting, because they they made this captain out to sound like just this huge piece of shit in the beginning. It's like he was completely inept, and it's like, well, I mean, the guy got the call wrong, you know, like I can't really blame the captain for that. But then as it as they start to go into the details and how long he sat on his hands to to own up to like how bad the situation really was and not call out the abandoned abandoned ship, call to the to those people, it led to all this all these catastrophes with loss of life because you know the boat started to list so badly that half of the boats uh life lifeboats w were inaccessible because they would just they they couldn't winch down to the to the water because the boat was listing so bad to the other side. Um and then uh and then apparently he abandoned the ship before everybody else got off, which is a big fucking no-no, you know.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

I think that was the thing that yeah, you know, he really took a lot of shit for is yeah, and this may have been uh exaggerated in retrospect. I don't remember, but I I think I I want to say that my memory of it that was being recorded, that he ordered the evacuation of his ship from his lifeboat, like after he got off.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

Yeah, there was some speculation, something to that to that effect, um, in the in the documentary, too. It one of the things that they were saying was that yeah, he was basically calling, you know, on the phone with the Coast Guard from land about the the current situation. That's what it was. And then the com yeah yeah, and then the commander of the Coast Guard caught wind that he wasn't even on the boat, and he's like, You need to get your ass back on that ship now. That's what it was.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

It was he was on he was calling the Coast Guard from the boat. The lifeboat. Yeah. And yeah, I remember that now. They were pretty not happy with them. Um did he give the wrong order or was the order No, he gave the right order.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

The helmsman screwed screwed it up.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Did he helmsman repeat it back?

SPEAKER_03 43:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

Did he repeat it back incorrectly? Correct. Okay. He repeated it back incorrectly and executed it incorrectly. Correct. Did the captain catch that?

SPEAKER_03 43:14

Yes. He immediately corrected him. I mean, by that point, they were already too close. Yeah. And my point is proven Well To your point here, the real problem was how close they were to things. Correct. They didn't have any margin of error.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Yeah, I mean, Jesus Christ, if you've if you've got your ship positioned such that uh a turn that occurs and is corrected inside of 10 seconds on the outside is what causes your demise. I think you shouldn't be a boat captain no more.

SPEAKER_03 43:55

You might not be so great. Yeah. Back to the The naming of those ships is hilarious. The LTS or the L T S. LTS, yeah. What is the L stand for? Literal. Littoral. Littoral, yes. I'm such a fucking child.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

I was I didn't even go there.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

I I mean I thought you were gonna say like literal, like literal, like we're literal, literally. That's what I thought you said initially, and then I pulled up the Navy's website. I'm like, oh, it's littoral. Littoral. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Doesn't exist. Correct. Littoral. It's a myth is um or that means relating to or situated on the shore of a sea or a lake.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

It's it's like uh close quarter combat for the navy.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Yeah, not but not teeny tiny quarter combat.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

No, no, yeah, but by by oceanic standards, it's pretty close.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:12

I think that I think that was pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Yeah, yeah. Um they still have ribs on board, so it's not that close. No, the ribs, the rigid hole, inflatable boats.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

Oh, okay. Skiffs or whatever. Yeah, okay, got it. Ribs. Rigid hole inflatable boat. You know what, dude? You're too littoral for this conversation. You just took the legs out from under me. Well,

Final Laughs And Sign Off

SPEAKER_03 45:43

I hate to cut you off there, but we are literally out of time. Thanks for joining us for another great episode and another swing shift. I'm your host, Rob, and we'll catch you on the next one.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

One

Outro Song

SPEAKER_00 46:08

brother talks, the other jumps in. Half a thaw, and we're off again. Big weird facts, small town ghosts, out of little corners, nobody knows. You bring questions, he brings a burn. We take a left and never return. One more minute, then twelve more turns. That's how it goes when the whole world whirls. Two brothers, two times on the two brothers, two times on. We go away all pro. We find the weird stuff and we let it go. Two brothers, two times old. Two times all. A cursed old statue, a fish on the phone. A guy in a stoop with a lawn full of stones. Say, wait, what? He says, Hold up. Now we're three stories deep in a soda cup. He brings a spark, he brings a spin. We chase the threat and we fall right in. One small clue turns into a flood. That's the sweet spot, that's the good stuff. Two brothers, two times all infinite tangents. Two brothers, two times all. We go away out, bro. We find the weird stuff and we let it go. Two brothers, two times all. If it's a strange round the case, two microphones one same base. Two brothers, two times old. Infinite tangent. Two brothers, two times old. We go with our bro, we find the weird stuff and we let it show. Two brothers, two times old. Two times old.