Loose Intro And The Setup

SPEAKER_05 0:13

It's time to punch in for another swing. I'm your host, Rob. I'm your host, Rob. I love it. Totally caught me off card. I've been thinking on that one all week. That's fantastic. I'm so glad I remembered it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

And I've ruined it. Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

It's okay.

SPEAKER_04 0:31

That's good.

SPEAKER_05 0:32

We can do it again. All right. Three.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

Oh no, we're not doing it again. That's good.

SPEAKER_05 0:38

Oh, we're gonna just do it. Okay. Unless we're just gonna let it be.

SPEAKER_04 0:40

Unless you want a clean intro, but I think it's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_05 0:44

No, yeah, I like that. Okay. I like I said begin in the beginning, I prefer organic anyway. All right. Uh all right. So anyway, hey bud.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

Hey.

SPEAKER_05 0:55

So

New Pokémon Friends And Teaming Up

SPEAKER_05 0:56

I got something I wanted to bounce off of you. Okay. Just happened last night. Not too hard. Keeping above the waist. Um it's a little because you're a pretty rational person, you don't look at things very emotionally, and I tend to be emotionally reactive to things. So I want your your input on this situation. Sure. Okay. So I've made a couple buddies through collecting Pokemon, and um, this is like really early on into my, you know, pretty much like weeks into me starting.

SPEAKER_04 1:36

Right. When you were first sort of poking into uh the hobby. There you go. That wasn't bad. But in bunks. Pope Pokemon. Okay. I'm just I'm a little punchy tonight, bud. So sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

Bring it. So anyway, um, we got along well. We started uh texting and getting, you know, would plan on getting together for uh for drops at stores, and then we'd feed each other information on like what what stores or vending machines had product and stuff, and just kind of like you know, it was like all three of us were kind of just getting started and uh trying to kind of figure out this whole thing together. So we figured why not team up and see what we could do uh you know together collectively. So anyway, um we started kind of getting into like you know, collecting sealed product and chasing what you call master set, which is basically you know, you you try to collect every single card that's available in a particular set that releases, and so you know, we exchange cards, we do trades on seal product and stuff. Did you guys like go recently go in on stuff together or is it just logistical stuff that you're once okay, yeah, one one time, and the reason we did it was because it was a hefty investment on something that I found at a at a vending machine. I was like, hey, it's 180 bucks, like you guys want to go three ways on this, otherwise I'm just gonna leave it for the next person. And they're like, Yeah, I'd get it. It's like okay, cool. But anyway, um so we've done a lot of like trades and um sales and stuff, and we've you know, for the most part, kept it pretty fair and friendly and stuff. Um, never really had any conflicts. And then um recently one of the guys had mentioned that he and his daughter had pulled a pretty expensive card, like north of $800. And his cousin was has been chasing this card for months and spent a lot of money opening packs to try to find this card, never found it. They got it, and he said, Yeah, we just gave it to him because we knew he wanted it so bad. I thought that was a really cool thing for them to do. So he he and his daughter were working on master setting one of the newer sets, and I asked him, you know, hey, what I got a lot of duplicates, what what would what do you have left to collect? And he sent me a list, and one of them was one of the top chases that's valued at the you know close to 250 bucks, and uh, I had

A $250 Gift With No Strings

SPEAKER_05 4:12

it, and I've pulled three of them already, one of which I sold, the other was in a in a different language, and then I pulled another English version, and uh so I told him, like, hey man, like I want to help you out. You know, you guys do things with a good heart. You try to, you know, you helped out your cousin. I want to get I want to be your karma, so I'm gonna give you this card, and it's free and clear. Like, I don't I don't expect anything in return, uh, no strings attached, all that stuff, right? So I said, you know, let me know when we can meet up. He's like, oh my god, dude, that's inscre- I've lost for words, it's so incredible, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, hey man, you don't have to say anything, just you know, continue to be a good steward of the of the hobby, and then that's it, you know, like just keep doing what you're doing. So anyway, we meet up on Monday, and I give him some cards because he had a few, or I had a few others that he was still trying to get. And um, you know, we talked for a bit. Um, one of the things that we talked about is that like I've kind of started pulling away from the sealed product. Um, I'll get some if I can find some available, and I usually set it aside so that way Robbie Kai and I have something to open together. But outside of that, I don't really go too heavy in collecting sealed, and so I started a wish list of cards that I'd like to buy um or trade for and stuff. And you know, we talked about that in one of the cards that I had mentioned.

The Trade Ask That Stings

SPEAKER_05 5:37

He's like, Oh yeah, I got that at an auction just last week. And he's like, he's like, uh, do you still have some of those sealed ETBs that that uh you won recently because uh I could trade you for those? And it kind of like irked me a bit because I was like, I just gave you like over $250 worth of cards free and clear, and then I mentioned like a wish list card, and you're like, oh yeah, we can trade for that, like no problem. Okay, whatever. So I blew it off because I'm like, you know, I shouldn't expect him to return the you know, return the favors. This is a no strings attached type deal. So I just kind of blew it off. Well,

Seeing The Gift Listed Online

SPEAKER_05 6:14

then last night I'm on Facebook, and there's uh there's some local Pokemon Facebook pages, and someone had posted that they were looking to purchase cards that were fifty dollars or above in market value, and he had commented and he basically said, Hey, here's my link for my pro my portfolio. This is uh my my buyer's or trade list. Let me know if you're interested in anything. And the card that I gave him, that's very, you know, close to 250 bucks, was on there. And uh I was like, fuck this guy. Um he's fucking basically I feel like I've been kind of scammed because like I gave this to you with the intention of helping you master set or completing your master set on the set, and then literally two days later, you have it up for trade. Yeah, and uh, you know, we have this group chat on WhatsApp, and we follow each other on different social media platforms because he and his daughter post videos of them opening packs, and I blocked him, blocked his number, unfollowed every fucking platform, blocked him on every platform because I'm just like I don't I don't want to fucking deal with him. Um he knows what he's doing, so I don't need to fucking explain to him, and I just I need to separate myself from from him because I've been taken advantage of. What's your take? Like, do you feel like I may have blown it out of proportion?

Was Blocking Him Too Much

SPEAKER_04 7:43

Um well I have a few questions. So it was uh the card, it was a card that I may have gotten mixed up at some point, but a card that he and his daughter were uh really after to complete a set. Correct. Okay. Um and then when you second clarification, when you say you blocked his blocked his stuff, does that mean like you just like I don't wanna I don't wanna have your feed pop up so I'm gonna mute it or like you blocked him like contact wise too? Yeah, both. Um okay. I did you say anything to him?

SPEAKER_05 8:27

No. No, because I I didn't I didn't know how to handle it. I I guess one of the things that I worry about is I I don't want to I don't want my response to be larger or disproportionate to the offense. And I I think it's just it's easier and probably cleaner to just just cut it off, you know, silently.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

Okay. Um interesting. Uh uh. So I my here's what I think is I think it's not I don't I don't think the the the cutoff per se is an overreaction um uh in and of itself, but I think that maybe it was a little a little overreacty because it was the only thing he did. Um like I I let me put it this way. Like if you reached out and you said you know, kind of told him what you thought about the situation and then he was a a dick about it back to you or whatever, and then you're like, you know, I don't want to do that shit. Sure, block him. Um because here's where I kind of where here's how I kind of look at it is uh two things. One, um you give you gave him the card. It was a gift. It says to do whatever the hell whatever he wants with it. And that's the logical that's that's the logical, obvious thing. You know, give someone a gift, it's there to do what they want with it. The part of it that makes it complicated is that you gave it with a certain intent, um, not as a sort of, you know, like you gave it with intent to help him and his daughter sort of meet uh sentimental for lack of a better word milestone. Yeah. Um so I understand why it's like why you you're been out of shape about it. I would be too. I think what I would say though, honestly, is that you never know what people have going on in their lives. And well, I think that's the big thing. You know, maybe maybe he was having money problems. Maybe he needs to sell it. Uh probably not. You probably know him well enough to uh to know that he doesn't, but also you don't. Um because you never know what people have going on, right? Um true.

SPEAKER_05 11:18

Can I can I give you some sure added details here?

The Pattern Behind The Blowup

SPEAKER_05 11:22

So you said the first thing that you said was that, and I I tried to make this as as succinct as possible just because I didn't want to be blabbering, but there was a few, there's been a few other things that have happened over the course of the last six months that have kind of built on this that I initially tried, you know, just kind of blew off or tried to give them the benefit of the doubt on, right? Um so like a couple of quick examples. There was another set that he and I were both trying to master set, and um, you know, we had exchanged information as far as what which cards we were still chasing after. And I had a pretty fair amount of duplicates on the higher end cards, and I just kind of said, Hey, I've got all these, they're yours, you can take them, right? And he was only able to really give me a few of the lower end cards that I was looking after, and maybe like one or two of the the full arc cards that might be worth you know two to six bucks, right? So very like a way of looking at it, it's like he he gave me about ten dollars worth of cards. I gave him like $180 worth of cards, and I kind of didn't really worry too much about it because it was it was just one of those things where I'm like, I'm doing it for the sake of the hobby for the you know to try to help him as a collector, and just kind of chalked it up to that, didn't think much else of it. And then we started working on doing trades on seal product, and like the first couple trades that we did, it was the scales were tipped very heavily in his favor on a couple of the first transactions, and so I was kind of a little miffed because I was just like, hey, you know, like I'm giving up some ground here to kind of help you out, but I don't really feel like the the scales ever kind of tip my way. And you know, in a friendship, it should be kind of a give and take, give and take, some reciprocity in there. And I just kind of said, okay, you know what? When it comes to this, we'll just treat it like a business transaction, and I'll just be cutthroat with him, like I'm not gonna give up any ground going forward. And I didn't. But then he would like go, hey man, like you know, what do you have? Do you still have this? Blah, blah, blah. We'd work a deal. And like it was with his his intent was like, hey, um, I'm looking to add this to my seal collection because I really want to have this and hold on to it. I'm like, cool, yeah, yeah, no problem. I've got, you know, either I've opened it, opened one already, already have another, or hey, like, go ahead. Like, I don't have a lot of sentimental attachment to it. So, you know, if it if it means something to you, I'm willing to trade. And then kind of similar situation where I'd see him posting it up to or he would mention something about doing a big trade deal with the shit that I traded for him. And it's like, I don't care about the fact that he's using stuff that he traded with me for other trades. It's the it's the deceptive factor, right? It's like I don't I don't care what your intention is, but don't don't be dishonest. Don't like put on some sort of like facade to try to like make me feel like I I want to help you out because at the end of the day, it's just a transaction, right? That's kind of what it's become. So and then some additional detail for you too. The third guy in our group had received a text from him today going, hey man, you still have this particular card in this particular set, um, or do you still have two of them? Because that's one of the few that I have left to master set, uh that I need to master set, and I've got two of this other card, the one that I gave him. Apparently he already had another one. Would you be willing to trade for this card? And he the guy screenshot it and sent it to me. He's like, hey dude, I this is probably gonna piss you off. But he sent he he sent this to me. And I was just like, well, that just validates what I kind of already assumed, which was basically, you know, he was he was not really being very honest and transparent about what he really needed, and he was taking advantage of my generosity so he could leverage it to get other things that he wanted. So it's like the way I look at it is if I'm if the shoe was on the other foot and I was the recipient of this expensive card, and I happened to, by happenstance, fall into one, open one, was given it, given one by somebody else, I would at least make make a mention of like, hey, I just wanted you to be aware this happened, so I already have it. I know that you wanted to give this to me. I'd be happy to take it because I could leverage that to get what else, whatever else I need to complete the set, but you at least deserve to know that. No, nothing, no communication, no like, hey, just wanted to you know let you know. It was just like in and it's all done, you know, undercover, like behind closed doors and shit to try to hide it from me, which again leads me to believe he's being deceptive.

SPEAKER_04 16:30

Yeah, right. Um did the third guy send you the screenshot um like recently, or I mean after you kind of decided you were done with the second guy and blocked him and the third guy knew all that?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

Alright, so let me tell you one little niggle uh I had with third guy uh is sending you a message or sending you a screenshot he knows is gonna piss you off and flat out says, I know it's gonna piss you off. What's the point? That's just you know it's like adding fuel to the fire. Well, it's it's antagonistic, I think, at worst, and at best it's just unnecessary. Like he knows you have a beef with the guy, you're done with the guy, you don't care to know what's going on with the guy, and whatever. Like, why stoke those flame? You know, it's like you don't walk up to every fat person call them fat. Like, it's true. But you know, why point out the obvious? Well, why yeah, well, why yeah, and why go out of your way to whatever. So that's my thing with the third guy, whatever. Uh I I was gonna say earlier when I said I think straight up blocking this dude and all that stuff seemed like a bit of an overreaction, but in my head I was thinking there's probably more. This probably isn't the only thing though. Um yeah. So yeah, I think have a better picture of it. Uh one uh I have a question about the second guy. Uh is he um I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but like is he a little manic, a little ADD, little uh, you know, does he have like a sort of personality to where it's possible? No. Okay. Alright. So yeah. I I was just, you know, I think you know what I'm getting at, which is like, you know, one day he's like, hey, you know, we want to fit we want to finish this set and everything, and that's what we're doing. And then two days later he's like turning around and trying to sell it, when maybe it's just like, you know, he just got you know, kind of his brain hooked on a certain thing one day and to change it, but okay. Um so it's shitty. Uh it it's shitty kind of the way that he approached the the the trading, let's say. Uh but it there's just a couple yeah, two two things. Give me some hard truths here, bud. One, you're an incredibly generous person, and most people are not.

unknown 19:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

Um two you know, the w if you make a deal and you agree to a deal and you execute the deal, um my belief is you can't have any hard feelings toward the other person unless it's you know done at gunpoint. You know what I mean? So just with I'm talking about with regard to the earlier ones where you felt like the trades were disproportionate.

SPEAKER_05 19:31

Um yeah, I completely agree.

SPEAKER_04 19:32

Yeah. And I understand easier said than done, but um it's just sort of one one thing that I'd I'd always try to keep in mind. It's like, you know what? Um I'm not gonna be not gonna be mad that I paid whatever for this car three three years ago. I'm the one who agreed to it, whatever. Um but I so kind of going back, here's what I think kind of going back to you don't know what has going on in his life, and blah blah blah. That sounds like it's probably nothing along those lines because you're talking about a pattern with him. But I you said something that I think is maybe not true, and also if it is uh true, is worth highlighting, which is you said he knows what he's doing. Well, yeah, probably, right? Um then there's also uh there's also a chance that maybe not. Some people have blind spots to certain things. Shouldn't have blind spots something like this, but some people do. But even if he does, um leaving I I think that kind of just cutting and walking away without you know explaining why.

Gifts Versus Intent And Closure

SPEAKER_04 20:52

Uh and I'm not even saying necessarily give him a chance to explain himself, just you know, I think it would be worth saying, you know, uh when I saw this card go up for sale that I gave you, um, it kinda you know, it kinda got me a little miffed because you know, I gave it to you for XYZ reasons and I uh I don't know if I would have given it to you if I knew you're just gonna turn around and sell it. Um and so like that really caught me off guard and I didn't care for that, and that's you know, I think just something I don't uh want to be a part of my hobby anymore, so you know, whatever. Uh you don't have to do that. I'm just saying, since you asked, that's my thought, is I think that's uh it doesn't sound like this is the kind of person you want in your s your trading circle. Um it but you know, I think that closure is always good. Um and I think that a lot of times we think that uh people The other person knows what they did, quote, knows what they did. We assume too much. Yeah. We assume too much. Sometimes they should know. Yeah. And I think that in some cases.

SPEAKER_05 22:13

I feel like my reaction was probably a little childish. I I I'll admit that. You know, it's kind of like I was pissed off, and I probably should have sat on it for a couple days before making that decision. But I I think another part of it too, and this is not like an excuse, but just I think my thought process at the time is I don't want to say something that's hurtful or mean because I don't want to do something that would make me feel like the bad guy. And so instead of like allowing myself that open door, I just kind of closed it quickly so that way I could avoid it. But it's still not the right way to handle it.

SPEAKER_04 22:49

Well, it's not the wrong way to handle it either. Um, and I don't I don't necess I don't necessarily think it was childish. I think it was a little knee-jerky, probably. Um I think that uh like it was the pragmatic thing to do. I mean, if you want to get down to just straight up uh Spock no emotion logic, you you know despite the how angry you were or whatever about it, you I mean you decided you didn't want this person to be a part of your life and a part of your hobby circle anymore. Okay. So pull the lever, turn it off, done. Like straight up that's the most practical, pragmatic thing to do. And uh I I think um and I think that's probably the right thing to do here. Uh I the reason I say I just wonder if it's gonna kinda because you didn't sort of just tell them like, hey, you know, this is what this is what happened, it rubbed me the wrong way. That's just I I'm not gonna have that a part of my life anymore. So Sayanara. Um I wonder if it's gonna like eat at you a little bit because you don't have that closed loop. Um, ask you a question. Yeah, go ahead. Um fast forward a bit, I don't know. Um and third guy tells you that second guy is you know saying shit about you and trash talking to you and saying like, oh that you know, he did shitty trades anyway, blah blah blah. Is that gonna is that gonna get you going?

SPEAKER_05 24:36

Probably not. Okay. Like when you when you said that I kind of put myself in in that frame of mind and didn't really make my blood boil because like frankly, it's like I know I know what I've done, I know what what the truth is. And frankly, like I kind of already written them off anyway, so like I don't really care what he says or thinks about me.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

Yeah, I I I'm sure you don't. I was kind of getting more at the angle of if you would if it would get your antennas up at all if you thought that somebody else might be thinking a certain way about you because of things he was saying.

SPEAKER_05 25:14

Uh I don't care. Okay. I really don't. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, at this very moment, I really don't care. And and here's why. There's a lot of fucking scumbags. And like I know that I've done as much as I could so far as being like a good steward to the hobby and to the industry as often as possible and at any any opportunity that I have. And so like if somebody disagrees with how I've handled a certain transaction or just plain out fucking tries to fabricate something about my intentions or what I've done, I just don't care because I know I know what my intention is and I know what what you know I'm trying to do for myself and for for the people around me. So I don't I just don't give a fuck.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

I think that's good. I think that's absolutely the right way to feel about it. Um Devil's Advocate. Um

Values, Reputation, And Cutting People Off

SPEAKER_04 26:15

because this is a hobby thing and it runs in somewhat limited circles. Um Yeah. I I think I think there's a there's a part of it, there's a there's a per piece of it that you you may need to think about as more like a job, which is the reputational component. And I say may need to think about I don't understand this community, blah blah blah blah. Obviously these aren't the only two Pokemon dudes out there, whatever. Yeah. But I'm just saying that's the only that's the only thing I could think of that may be a consideration. But apart from that, yeah, who gives a shit what people think? Like the thing is, and you don't have to explain yourself to fucking anybody, and that's the other thing I want to make very clear. You know, when I said I was asking you if you should reach out and blah blah blah, I'm I'm asking the question and with regard to you and it's how you're gonna feel in the future, you don't have to explain yourself to anybody. Um and the I I have probably uh one of the biggest let's say the last four or five years have been not have been rough for me for a lot of reasons. Um as you all know, but probably the biggest takeaway that I've gotten from those things that have happened, all of the things I'm talking about are specifically with regard to shitty people doing shitty things.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

Hi, Val.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

Uh is is this that these kind of there's no relationship that is worth holding on to uh if it's a drag on you. And when you look at relationships, you and I say you, but me, the way this is why I think when I look at relationships, be they friends, family, whatever, I my thing is like, what is what is a relationship give what does it bring me? And hopefully, hopefully uh the pie is very much disproportionate in that it's bringing me good things. Um and if it's not, then it's either the relationship needs to end or it needs to be modified. And I'll use my biological dad as an example, right? Um we don't have a bad relationship, but he's not a bad guy. We we have different values, I guess, if I'm gonna sort of like really summarize, we have different values. Um and I I made the decision years ago that um uh my relationship with him was gonna be basically polite. Because having any expectations, uh any expectations um or I guess expectations the biggest thing. Expectations is always the fucking thing that gets everybody. Um disappointment is the product of expectations, you know, it's applies everywhere. Um but like you know, and with with my relationship with him, I struggled for a long time with it because it was always kind of a drag on me in a lot of ways. And you know, then I just decided it doesn't have to be.

SPEAKER_05 30:02

Like, you know, and like I said, you're the only one that's allowing that to have that impact on you, right?

SPEAKER_04 30:09

Right. And so I didn't cut him off or whatever. I just I modified the relationship down to what made sense in in that case, which is we have infrequent and and polite contact in the form of email, you know, a few times a year. And that works for him and works for me. Um but I had to make that decision and realize, you know, it's only gonna be that. And to try to to get worked up over it, you know, making anything more uh whatever. It's just not gonna do it. And uh there's you know, there's a couple other people in my life that I've had to, I'm not gonna name check anybody, but I've had to sort of triage or sort of slot the relationship in a certain way, um and just realize I'm you know, I'm only gonna get so much out of it, and the rest of it is sort of a drag and in some cases a source of consternation for many, many years. Uh but not anymore. Um and so it's pretty long-winded to say that uh people the people that you choose to be part of your family in the broader sense, um should earn it and always earn it and be there for the right reasons. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:38

Yeah, you're absolutely right. But I I uh I don't want to be disparaging too bad, but I just I feel if the sense that I get it's like he it's almost like a facade that gets put on. And it's just a it's it's just a I almost I feel like he's a con artist, you know? Yeah, and that's a bigger piece of it. It's like holy shit, okay, like you know, there's been a lot of things that I've seen and I've just kind of let go of for the most part or gave him try to give him the benefit of the doubt, but always been kind of like cognizant of, right, going forward. Yep. And then this is kind of like that final nail in the cuff. I'm like, okay, like I don't know. Maybe maybe it is that I just had too much of an expectation of him to just simply like be transparent, right? Like, I don't I I don't care about the card, and that's exactly it. It's it's just the the principle. He's he lacks he lacks um character, he lacks um morals and ethics, you know, and like like I said, like I feel like if I if the rules were reversed, I would be transparent because people deserve that, you know, at least honesty. And I couldn't even get that. So I just kind of feel like I at that point he doesn't he doesn't deserve to hear my reasoning as to why I'm cutting him off or my why I'm upset, because I don't I'm just I've got enough going on in my life, I've got enough people in my life, and last thing I need is somebody that's gonna either intentionally or unintentionally fuck me over because you know, like one of the things that the uh the guy number three had said, he's like, well, you know, it sounds to me like he hasn't had a lot of friends in his life, and he probably doesn't have that experience of knowing how friendships work, where it's kind of, you know, there's some there it's it's reciprocal, right? You know, sometimes I give, sometimes you give, and back and forth, sometimes at the same time. Sometimes there's you know, people that are going through really hard periods of their life where you have to give a lot and not get anything hardly in return. But you know, like it's because you love them, you care about them, you want the best for them. And at some point down the road, there'll probably be a a time where you fall on hard times and then they pick up that slack, right? But the reality is, is like like I guess I came about this kind of philosophically. I'm like, is it because he hasn't had friends that he that he does these things, or is it because he does these things that he doesn't have friends?

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

Uh so I I I now understand why this is really bothering you. Um

Why Deception Hits So Deep

SPEAKER_04 34:29

and I don't know if you know why that just clicked in for me, but I'd love uh I'd love I'd love for you to tell me. There's two things here. And the reason why the reason how long ago did this like the block thing happen?

SPEAKER_05 34:48

This was wait, wait the block part?

SPEAKER_04 34:53

When you blocked him.

SPEAKER_05 34:55

Oh, last night.

SPEAKER_04 34:56

Oh, okay. So that's still pretty fresh. Um, so the reason why uh this is really grinding at you, and you I can hear it in your voice, I've been hearing it the whole time, is that it's visceral for you, and it's visceral for two reasons. And those two reasons are y values. This is hitting on two of one major value, which is uh you said he's a con artist, and you are so not. And so this just viscerally rubs you the wrong way because you just yeah, despite all the specifics, this is just not something that your DNA computes with how people should be.

SPEAKER_05 35:39

No, not at all. You're absolutely right about that.

SPEAKER_04 35:43

But the other part of it is you had you felt sorry for the guy. Mm-hmm. Which is something I don't want to call it a trap. Uh it's just the word that's coming to me. It's something that you have found yourself in at times in your life with people. Because you're a sucker for that, and I mean that in a good way.

SPEAKER_05 36:12

Yeah, I like to I wanna I wanna I'm a fixer, is what mom was mom's always said. Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:18

And yeah, you're a fixer, and I think I think that's a good word to describe it. I think it makes it sound a little mechanical. Um it uh and I'm not knocking it. I just wanna like I just I I I just wanna uh sort of express it in the right way because it's a it's it's a really good thing because you know you I would call I would say if I was gonna pick O word, uh uh you're a helper. You want to help people and you feel like people who have who let's just say need help, that you can help them and you do help them. And so, you know, on the one hand, you sort of got uh a kick in the dick after jumping in on, you know, I'm not saying you're friends with them only because you didn't have any friends, but you know, that was certainly part of what was going on in your head. Um so then you got kicked in the dick for that, and then it's like I think part of why it's uh it's really uncomfortable is like you made a you made a bet and you miscalculated this person. And that's not something that we don't like that when that happens. No. Uh no, I don't I don't like being made for a fool. Right. Uh exactly. And so you know, things are always complicated and whatever, but um it's that it really is that this person just flies in the face of everything that you are. Um and you you have I don't know if you've ever heard this, but um has any a doctor, psychiatrist, whatever, ever told you um or have you heard about the fact that people with um ADD have often have a more pronounced sense of justice?

Justice Sensitivity And Anger Control

SPEAKER_04 38:33

Mm-hmm. You've heard this?

SPEAKER_05 38:35

Mm-hmm. It's a really interesting thing. I actually read in my my anger management book. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:41

Wow, that's a whole other whole other bag of dictionary.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Different Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_04 38:48

Uh uh Yeah, it right. It's a man, I remember the first time I heard that. It's like yeah. And you know, that's it's it's it's sort of an interesting thread and tangent um in in that I, you know, I don't know what it is. I have I have that like to the max. I'm like, you know, I don't litter, and you shouldn't litter litter either. And like, I'm not gonna go after you, but like I it just irks me when people or like people who don't have car insurance, people that, you know, their tags are five years out of date, people that you know, like that don't return the shopping cart to the thing. Yeah, it's like it just irks me so bad because it's like who the fuck do you think you are? First of all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:36

And secondly, like, you know, I I don't care if it's illegal or what, but like we're living in a society and you know, it's just not fair, and it's not just that right, because I spent you you feel like I'm I'm I'm pulling all the fucking weight around here, and then everybody else is around me is just kind of fucking yeah, not not holding up their weight, not carrying their weight.

SPEAKER_04 40:00

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, you know, I don't get if I see a car that's not registered or that's super out of date, I'm like, I don't get mad at I'm like, god damn you, Texas make me pay $120 every year. But no, I'm mad at the person. I'm like, we all no, this is what you do. I you know, I why do I pay $120 a year for my truck? Because your fucking ass doesn't pay your tax. And you just don't. And it's not even about that. I'm not even talking about like those kind of things. Like it's not like, oh, I'm paying for your tax. No. With some things, yeah, but like this stupid example, it's more like who the fuck do you think you are?

SPEAKER_05 40:40

Well, okay, so one of the things I read about in this book of mine was yeah, you you have this sense of like injustice and that you take it personally. But the reality is that nobody's doing 99% of the time, the things that people do that aren't directed at you aren't intended to piss you off. So the only reason you're getting pissed off is because you're allowing it to piss you off, right?

SPEAKER_04 41:09

Yeah, that's that's the other side of it, is like um these yeah, I mean it and and I I think that's a good way to frame it actually in the in the in the context of like anger, uh anger management or whatever, is like it's good to know that. It's good to know that you have that in your brain, right? So that when certain things come up, you can sort of talk yourself down. If if need be, right? Like sometimes, no, sometimes you're right to be pissed about. I say all the time, like sometimes you gotta be fucking pissed. Like, you know, there's sit I've been in situations with work and with you know, friendships and you know, family and stuff, or like something something that's gone on, and like uh the advice is always typically just you know give it a minute, give it some time, think on it, cool off first. 85% of the time, as I've gotten older, I heed that and I realize that's the right thing to do. But sometimes you gotta fucking go in hot because people need to fucking know. Like, this is probably my thing. Like you need to know that this thing is so bad or such a big deal, or you hurt me so much, or whatever. You need to know. Like it warrants sometimes a reaction like that, but not all the time.

SPEAKER_05 42:37

I guess like what's your barometer on deciding what what's need to know versus what's uh you know, let it go.

SPEAKER_04 42:45

Well, I'm uh I I'm talking more about the generally. No, I'm talking about uh not letting it go versus not. I'm talking about the the point at which you decide to say something. Right.

SPEAKER_05 42:59

And that I guess that's what I was driving at. It's like is it do you address things like that when the relationship matters to you and you want you want things to you don't want things to fall apart because like not saying something, you're just gonna things are just gonna naturally drift apart, right? But if you address it head on, it's like no, I like this is a problem and like we need to address this because I value this this relationship.

SPEAKER_04 43:27

Well, uh and just to be clear, maybe I wasn't clear. Well, like Okay. What the ones I'm talking about are where I am going to address it.

SPEAKER_05 43:37

So this But why? Well, like what's the intent behind it? Is it for j to to s to get to be justified, to to be vindicated?

SPEAKER_04 43:44

Oh, um well it yes, but it what's the point? It's it it does depend on the relationship and it depends on the situation like a lot. Um you know, if uh and most of the time, like I said, I've got as I've gotten older. Uh I do I you know, I'll be pissed off privately in my head, give it a little time, tell you know, kind of amp down and then try to approach a situation and talk calmly. Most of the time, 85%, 90 90% of the time, that's you know, that's what I'm doing.

When To Confront Versus Walk Away

SPEAKER_04 44:20

Um the like well, I'll reference an example, uh, which is last July here at the ranch. Right. You weren't here, you know what happened. We're not gonna get into the details on this show. But that was a situation where I was given the advice, the suggestion, to cool off before you respond. And I took a little bit I took enough time to think about that to make sure I wasn't just knee-jerking, and then decided, no, I'm going in hot because it needs to be known how catastrophic and bad this thing and this situation is right now. A point needed to be made. Right. And as somebody who was on the other end of the phone with me several times during the course of this thing and counseled me quite a bit, you know that my emotions were at 13.

SPEAKER_05 45:34

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:35

Yep. And the person on the receiving end of what I'm talking about needed to understand that too. I think it was important to, in that situation, to understand this I mean the situation's bad, but um it's so bad that you've put me and other people that we won't mention at 13. Right. And what i what what's the goal in that particular example? The goal is to clack somebody in the head to wake him up, hopefully. Like, you know. And that's why I say sometimes you gotta be pissed. And I I worked for a guy named Bryce. He was awesome years ago, just the coolest guy ever. Um he was probably in his late fifties when I worked for him, you know, he'd gone all the way up the corporate ladder and kind of got knocked down, uh actually got knocked down for an ethical thing, in that he was instructed to do things that he didn't think were ethical, and he said no. And they're like, but they brought him up on an ethics issue. No, they didn't bring him up, they just demoted him all the hell. And oh my god. He was like a director when I met him and worked for him. Uh but he was just like Isn't that technically retaliatory? Ugh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:11

I mean, sure, but it's like He's at a level where HR doesn't exist, probably.

SPEAKER_04 47:16

He was at that point, and then also he's just not the type of person, and then also uh you really gotta you really gotta put a lot into it to try to win one of the those battles. Because I mean, even even though these big corporations they do stuff like that that's just petty and whatever, like they know how to back it up. You know, there's gonna be a paper trail. Whatever, it's not the point. Bryce, yeah, this is a cool cat, and he this was him. Like every morning, hey Bryce, how you doing? Every day above ground's good, one kiddo, big old smile. And that and that wasn't a thing he said, that's how he lived. Like, I remember there was one day that there was we worked in the this big like operations center at the railroad. Kind of a huge room with like 200 people and like mission control. There's this hail storm rolling in. And it was getting, you know, everybody's parked outside. There was a parking garage, but most people in that building parked outside. And people are like scurrying about and like running out to move their cars and shit. And I I just happened to be at his desk talking to Bryce Um when sort of word came through that the storm was coming through. And I was kind of I don't remember the conversation, but I remember that I was having a bit of a bit of a rough day, and like I was sort of frustrated with some things uh with regard to work, and I was talking to him to kind of get his feedback. And so these people are going by, we're going by. And I'm like, what's happening? And he's like, It's like, oh, there's a hail storm running and people are moving their cars inside. And he's like, Yeah, you know what you're saying? I said, No, Bryce, you park your trucks out back. Of course, he had like you know, brand new full-size four 60,000 beautiful truck. The guy had a lot of money too, it was great. Um, yeah, another thing he used to say when you'd buy something like because we got into guns together and stuff, and he came in on Monday, like, oh, like I bought these three guns, blah blah. Like, dude, you're spending a lot of money on guns. Can't take it with you, kiddo. Just had that mentality. But anyway, um, I was like, Bryce, hold up, Bryce, go move your truck. And I start to get up, he's no, not sit down, kiddo. It's just a truck. What were you saying? Wow. And I was like, this and there's so many anecdotes about Bryce that like he's really stuck with me over the years. But what got me on this is um back then I was pretty early in my career, had an ego, um, would have a lot of frustrations about pe people and things that I thought didn't measure up, and all blah. And he uh and he saw that, he was really good with me about it. But my pref well, I think my first like annual evaluation with him, he said, you know, he gave he gave me feedback and stuff, and he gave me that feedback. And he said, uh, you know, you you get frustrated a lot. And I said, I do, and I'm sorry. And he said, Don't be sorry. When you're frustrated to me, that tells me you care. If you're mad, that's because you care. I said, Don't be sorry. Think about how you can channel it differently. And that's kind of the very long answer to I think your question uh about or if I don't know if it was a question, but you know, the point I'm making, which is sometimes you gotta be mad. And most of the time you don't, and sometimes you just gotta walk away. Uh like in the case of uh your uh your your former friend here.

SPEAKER_05 51:00

Um Yeah. I I just I guess I felt like he didn't deserve to know. He didn't Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

I mean you don't like maybe I painted him in his picture. You don't want to owe him anyway, anything. Um again, my only you know, the only thing I would say to you, again, since you asked for my opinion. Usually you get it without asking, but since you asked, um the only thing I would say is yeah, give or just kind of keep it in the back of your head, roll it around for a few days, whatever, as you calm down, and just think about for yourself. For yourself, is there anything that you feel like is gonna come up downline, having handled it this way or that way, or however you handled it? Um And it sounds like probably not, but my point is, you know, the only thing you owe the only person you owe anything to is is yourself in this case.

SPEAKER_05 52:02

Right. And maybe maybe that's the problem.

Staying Kind Without Getting Cynical

SPEAKER_05 52:04

Maybe that's probably why I reacted the way I did and why this we're even talking about this is because I'm probably in reality more mad at myself for not fucking for one, putting myself out there and kind of kick like you said, kicking myself in the dick. Um but yeah, not being more cautious, you know, not seeing things for what they were and kind of like putting putting myself at dis or yeah, giving myself some distance from the guy a little bit, you know. But that's the other thing though. It's like I don't want that part of me. I don't want to become jaded and and cynical about the world, you know. Like I want I want to see the what's best in people and try to give people the benefit of the doubt as much as possible and maybe to a fault. Well not maybe, definitely to a fault, but I gotta f I gotta find some sort of fucking balance, you know, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 53:00

Well, I think that you I don't think you have an imbalance necessarily. I think I think this is this is in the category of uh let a lesson learned. And whether there's a I should have done this and I should have done that, maybe. But also some people are just shitty. And you know, something about you is you look for the best in people generally, and um it's easy to not it's easy to to not see those signs if they were there, or it's easier easy to overlook them. And you know, ultimately I can tell you're frustrated and upset about the situation, but at the end of the day, no harm done, right? Like you got you you figured out who you decided for yourself who he was, and you got out, and you know, it's uh you didn't let it get to a point where it was gonna be anything worse than a few days of upset, hopefully.

SPEAKER_05 54:00

Um Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:03

And I'll I'll I'll throw this out as you know, to kind of make my point about the is that uh and let me well let me first say that I totally get what you're saying. Like this it's such a it's it's hard to swallow when you misjudge somebody really bad. Um and you're you really want to be like, what should I have seen about let me take the example of uh somebody that we knew for decades who flat out straight up stole right under stole from our family and threw their entire relationship uh away over maybe a few thousand dollars of shit that they could on. Yeah we it's like that's one that I every now and then I still struggle with a little bit. It's like I always thought I just never thought that that person would do that. I really never did. Um And you and I both know that we always knew that that person was not the most above-board person.

SPEAKER_05 55:27

Yep. And but we just never thought it would happen to us like, oh well, she wouldn't ever do it to her own family. Right.

SPEAKER_04 55:34

It's exactly that. It's like you never consider the possibility. Um But yeah, I think like I think you do have a good balance, you know. And I say that based on what I've seen, what I've known of the friends that you have had for a very long time. I mean, there's been plenty of people who have come and gone. The ones that stick around, have stuck around, are some some really good some really good people. Um and then kind of to put a bow on. Hey Brian. Hi Brian. Hey Brian, love you. So cute. Um uh and kind of put a bow on this, like at least for for my opinion on it, is uh better to have no fucking friends than bad friends.

SPEAKER_05 56:28

Yeah, absolutely. It really is.

Reciprocity And What You Can Count On

SPEAKER_05 56:33

Yeah, I we we touched on that a couple a couple weeks ago when we were going a little long in the tooth, and we kind of talked about that, like the the reciprocation of just energy, right? Like what you're what you put into a friendship versus what you what's uh given back, right? And it's not necessarily to keep score, but it's like you don't wanna you don't want to be somebody else's battery versus constantly pulling pulling energy, right?

SPEAKER_04 57:05

Yeah, uh for sure you don't. And then also like you have an expectation, uh like you don't want to be somebody else's battery and get you know and get drained dead, but you uh you can be for your the people you care about, you know, on a short-term basis, on a medium-term basis when things come up. Yeah. But then also like you expect you you expect them to have a little juice for you uh when you need it. And it's a real disappointment when they don't. And you know, I I think some people can maybe take a little bit like what we're saying here to be like we think of these things as transactional. It's not transactional, it's not what you do for me. It's about, you know, who are you for me and what can I count on getting from you. Um it works both ways, but uh kind of back to what I was saying earlier about, you know, look at the people and what they bring to your lives and what they don't bring to your lives, and you know, keep the ones that bring something. And in I I told you this I think a few weeks ago. We're talking about uh uh some well a friend of mine um who well, a friend of mine and a lawnmower, let's leave it at that. And I told you, you know, like uh I said, you know, this for me, like I I got mad about it, I calmed down, uh, I calmly communicated to my friend about it and asked questions like, well, you know, didn't accuse, didn't yell, didn't wasn't angry at all. I got mad privately, got over it. But then what I was telling you, and here's my point, is you know, one of the things I've learned as I've gotten older is you have to be able to count on people, which seems obvious, but what I've the part in parentheses that I've learned is you have to be you have to know what you can count on people for. And you don't have to be able to count on everybody for everything, right? Right. Yeah. And like I told you, this friend of mine, I could call him any time of the day or night, and you know this is true. Can you come help me change the tire on my truck? Be like, you bet, buddy, I'm on my way. I can count on him for that, right? And a lot of other things. But I've learned some things I can't count on him for. But he still brings a lot to me, to my life. And his friendship is incredibly important to me. And understanding the dynamics, and again, like what you can count on people for, I think is so important in for in any relationship. And usually you learn lessons the hard way. But you know, to kind of circle back, it's all yeah, expectations, right? Expectations, beget, disappointment, and yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:17

Yeah. Well, um, you know, kind of like one of the things that I'd mentioned in in that previous conversation too, it's like instead of getting pissed or jaded or whatever, like I tend to I tend to just like meet people at their level, right? Like you you get what you give type thing. You know, it's like so if if it become if there becomes an imbalance and I can't rely on them for certain things, but I've you know, I've done those things for them when they needed me, then it's just like, okay, like I'll meet you at your level going forward, right? And it works. Yeah, you know, but it does, yeah. There's certain non-negotiables, and I feel like the the con the story that I told that it is kind of been the premise of this whole conversation about is strictly about character and morals. And those are some non-negotiables for me. I cannot I cannot be friendly, I cannot be cordial, I cannot meet you at your level because like you said, it's it's it is foundationally like corrupt to me. And foundationally like just completely wrong.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:36

Right. It's uh you you you say character and morals, and I for for myself I use a uh a broader term to encompass those and several many other things, which is values, and values are non-negotiable. And you're absolutely right. And so the same with my friend and you know, the lawn tractor. It's like I I can't I can't trust them if I lend them a piece of equipment to not bust it up. Big fucking dot deal on the grant scheme, right? I just won't lend them equipment anymore. Move on. Yeah. Like he you know, if you'd stolen the stolen a piece of equipment, that's a value thing. No, we're fucking done, bro. But and so you get it. And I think that I think you got your head on straight about this. Uh I think you I think you got a little bit of whiplash with it. Because it's so fresh. Yeah. Yeah. But uh I think that I I think you're doing the right thing. And I think questions about if you handled it if you did the right thing in the right way, if you handled it the right way, that's that's up to you.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:49

And that's it was more about like, is my barometer right or am I overreacting? I think that's what it really is.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:56

I don't think at all you overreacted in terms of this person shouldn't be a part of my life at all anymore. At all, no. Like you said, it's character and morals, okay, boom, done. Um, you know, my only thing is just you know, question for you, which I think you've answered now. Is like, you know, did the way that you got the way that you made that that flip that switch, is that good for you? That's I think the only thing. Because yeah, that's you don't want to you don't want this person in your life.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:26

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I I just yeah.

Sponsor Bit And Signing Off

SPEAKER_05 1:03:31

I I think sometimes, you know, as much as I want to be gruff and tumble and stuff, I'm actually pretty tender and loving. And speaking of tender and loving, don't forget to check out our sponsor, tenderlovingbaskets.com. Where they'll customize a basket for any occasion for a friend or loved one.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:50

Oh god. He caught me caught my me tender loving off guard, bud. Like an ad spot. Oh my god. Oh, fantastic.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:10

And on that note, we thank you all for joining us for another swing shift. Time to punch you out. We'll catch you on the next one.